donnaimmaculata (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
donnaimmaculata) wrote2005-07-27 12:01 pm
donnaimmaculata) wrote2005-07-27 12:01 pm
Entry tags:
Smash the heterosexual orthodoxy
Following the confirmation of the Remus/Tonks canon and the subsequent - to use a polite term - discussions about whether or not Rowling has merely submitted to society's heterosexist pressure, I would like to ask a question that's always interested me: What makes Remus gay?
I am asking this, because there are many readers who read the character Remus Lupin as gay. And I don't mean the character's being coded as representing the idea of homosexuality on an allegorical level, which is quite a different thing. (A worrying one as well if people assume that making someone a vicious man-eating monster means that they stand for homosexuality, but this is neither here nor there.) What I am interested to know is what, exactly, about Lupin's characterisation makes readers think he's as gay as a tree full of monkey.
Because, as much as I like writing and reading Remus in slash pairings, I've never read the character in the novel as gay. (He reminds me far too much of my ex-BF for that, but this, again, is neither here nor there.) He's polite, understanding and witty, which, I realise, are qualities that are often contributed to gay men, because they are oh so full of understanding for us women, quite unlike their rude, insensitive, grumpy straight counterparts.
This is a serious question. I'm honestly interested.
I am asking this, because there are many readers who read the character Remus Lupin as gay. And I don't mean the character's being coded as representing the idea of homosexuality on an allegorical level, which is quite a different thing. (A worrying one as well if people assume that making someone a vicious man-eating monster means that they stand for homosexuality, but this is neither here nor there.) What I am interested to know is what, exactly, about Lupin's characterisation makes readers think he's as gay as a tree full of monkey.
Because, as much as I like writing and reading Remus in slash pairings, I've never read the character in the novel as gay. (He reminds me far too much of my ex-BF for that, but this, again, is neither here nor there.) He's polite, understanding and witty, which, I realise, are qualities that are often contributed to gay men, because they are oh so full of understanding for us women, quite unlike their rude, insensitive, grumpy straight counterparts.
This is a serious question. I'm honestly interested.
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It wasn't until I actually came into the HP fandom last summer that I really had much interest in slash. And even now, it's not about the slash itself, it's about the dynamics between the particular characters. When I first read the books, I never even thought about the sexuality of the characters. At all. I didn't read them for the romance; I read them for the story - for the plot - for the interesting characters. And after PoA, Remus and Sirius quickly became my favorites, probably because they were about my age, and the trio were so young to me.
It wasn't until I stumbled upon a R/S fic, quite accidentally I might add, that the idea of the two of them as a couple entered my mind. And to my surprise, it really resonated with me. Not because of their gender, not because it was "ooh - teh hot slashy sex", but because I loved the dynamic of their personalities together. Their gender was almost... incidental. And I have gay friends as well. Yes, I saw the similarities between lycanthropy/homosexuality, but I never really applied it in that manner. It was a metaphor, not an actual comparison.
So why do I see Remus as gay/bi rather than straight? I can't honestly tell you. It's not any one thing in particular and there's no glaring neon sign flashing over him proclaiming "gay as a tree full of monkeys" or anything like that. I just tend to look at him as a private, closed person who, by his very nature and probably because of his condition, would not be one to scoff at attraction/love in whatever form it comes in. At least not as an adult - as a teen - it would probably have been awfully confusing. And because of who he is, he's also not the type to seek out love or relationships. Not so much because he doesn't think he deserves it, but because he's too much of a realist, and his friendships with the other marauders were more on par with a gift. I suppose I also see him as being much more comfortable with men than with women in general. He doesn't let people in - not easily - which is why I'm not happy with the R/T relationship as it's been portrayed.
I like Tonks. I'd read a few stories pairing them together, and the fanon Tonkses were much better written compatibility-wise. Sirius is such a force of nature, especially younger Sirius, that he wouldnt have taken no for an answer. Relentless. Canon Tonks doesn't have that... passion, that depth.
Anyway, I'm really going OT. I suppose fanon has influenced me though I don't slash just to slash. I don't like Snupin, and I wouldn't just pair Remus indiscriminantly with any male just for the sake of it. I need a reason beyond "ooh teh hot slashy sex!" I just really like him with Sirius. To me, it just fits - it works. And I can't really explain it any more than that.
I don't think I helped very much in answering your question...
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ahh.. now I don't have to comment because you said it perfectly. bless you.
I totally agree with everything, especially Remus/Sirius making more sense to me as a pairing because of the dynamic, not because of their gender. Granted, because of R/S I've got into reading other slash pairings, but I really just like the idea of Remus&Sirius and of course when you read the fanon stuff it gets sort of in your head.
As far as Remus being gay or not, I didn't read him that way until I entered the fandom and then it seemed to resonate with me and make a lot of sense, so... it's hard to say now. (sorry, this post was rather pointless, but I just wanted to snog
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*snogs you back*
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I had nearly the same experience and impressions.
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I really had a similar experience with Sirius and Remus, as I do with many characters. I've never sought out slash or het in and of themselves, but look for pairings that make sense, that bring out certain dynamics between characters. For Remus, I find that pairing him with the available female characters doesn't satisfy me. Those pairings don't emphasize the things I like about Remus. So, in that sense, yes, I see him as gay.
I don't know when I'm going to write my little "essay" just yet. I want it to coincide closer with a fic I'm working on. But if you're interested, I put up a poll on Remus' sexuality in my journal, basically asking the same questions as here.
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Yes, it's the same for me. I wish I could add something insightful to your comment, but you've expressed it beautifully already.
I read and write more slash than het, because Sirius, Remus and Snape are my favourite characters. (Also, I like teh hot slashy sex. But I want it to be embedded into a plot that makes sense.)
I make a difference between the allegorical meaning of a character (Remus could stand for homosexuality, but he could also stand for AIDS or a mental disease, and I tend to read him as a metaphor for the latter), the character's slashability and the character's, well, characterisation. These three do intertwine; but I am puzzled, nevertheless, that there seems to be something about Remus' characterisation that makes many readers consider him "a perfectly gay character".
He doesn't let people in - not easily - which is why I'm not happy with the R/T relationship as it's been portrayed.
Neither am I. I appreciate Rowling's difficulty to portray a pairing that happens almost entirely off-stage, but the whole scene in the hospital wing strikes me as wrong. Tonks might break down and confront Remus, but I so don't see him discuss their relationship in front of everybody. (I don't see him holding hands, either, btw.) It reads rather rushed, as though Rowling wanted to establish their relationship to end the book on a not-quite-so-depressed note.
Funnily, I'm not a Sirius/Remus shipper. There are plenty of Sirius/Remus fics I've enjoyed, but I hardly ever read this pairing these days. I like Sirius and I like Remus, but I prefer them as friends. For me they've got a fantastic dynamic as friends.
I don't think I helped very much in answering your question
Oh, but you addressed many interesting aspects! And it's not as though I expect a satisfactory answer in any case.
I just like talking about Remus.no subject
*g* I do as well! I was literally one of those (rare) people who came to the fandom for the 'gen' aspects, discovered the porn and stayed just as much for that as anything. I've always liked Snape as a character - I think he's incredibly complex, I love his snark, I love the fact that he constantly surprises me - how Harry is always wrong about him, but the image I have in my head of Snape (even though he shares mannerisms and his voice with Alan Rickman, he doesn't look like Rickman to me) rather precludes me from thinking of him as a sexual being. Which is why I'm not a fan of Snape ships.
I prefer plot, but I do read PWP's if the paired characters 'work' for me. I haven't written het in HP fandom, mostly because the female characters haven't much inspired me to do so. I'm also not prolific like so many of the others whose stories I read.
I love the friendship dynamic between all four of the marauders. I especially like the dynamic between James and Sirius. I've read slash stories that have paired them, but I prefer them as friends. And I also like stories that explore the friendship between Remus and Sirius as well as sexual/romantic aspect. I much prefer the 'friends become lovers' type of dynamic to the 'hate sex' or 'casual acquaintance' or 'love at first sight' types. Especially with these two. Because I don't see either of them trusting easily or lightly, and especially with Remus having to hide his condition, I can't see him being comfortable or at ease with anyone. I can see him perhaps wanting to be 'normal', snogging a girl or two because it's what teenage boys do, but never able to take that next step because he's far to wary, far too secretive (because he has to be), private and distant - self-effacing and a bit self-conscious, with a tinge of self-pity... And I suppose I like the idea of Sirius being truly fascinated by Remus - especially by his self-control, since that's something that Sirius is rather lacking in - just as Remus would be attracted to Sirius' spontaneity and passion because those are things he can't allow himself.
I think that's why I enjoy reading and writing stories that take place pre-azkaban and during their time at Hogwarts. Plus, I love the challenge of being a female writing 'boy behavior' and trying not to fall into the trap of writing them with girlish tendencies. (It's funny - I wrote one story where they go from first kiss to snogging to (clothed) frottage in the span of minutes, and a few people felt that it was 'too fast', and all I could think of was, "but, they're boys, not girls.")
...Or with flamboyant gay tendencies either. That's not to say that I haven't enjoyed quite a few 'glam Sirius' stories - but they're more on par with escapist fantasy for enjoyment purposes rather than 'reality'. (*hee* reality. *headdesk* Sometimes I think they're far too real in my head for my own good!) Remus is not in any way flamboyant or 'stereotypical' (Queer Eye) gay, either. In fact he's quite opposite. Which I think in itself is one of the things that attracts us to the idea. Well, it attracts me - dispelling the ridiculous stereotypes like the limp wrist, a lisp, fashion and style (and decorating) sense. Heh.
I'm admittedly rather picky about the stories I read - especially when it comes to R/S because there are so many fics out there. I've got my grouping of favorite authors whose characterizations and writing skills I trust completely, even when I don't always agree with everything they write, others whom I find entertaining and will 'give it a shot'. Not to mention that I've gradually expanded my slashy tastes because there are so many fantastic writers that I've found.
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