What's a Mary Sue?

[donnaimmaculata]

No, honestly. I entered aldalindil's It's All Been Done Fest with the pairing Lupin/OFC. Now, I consider all OFCs whose major (or sole) purpose is to shag the male character the author finds attractive a Mary Sue, regardless of how well she's written. I mean, no-one writes an OFC who ends up with Hagrid, right? They all get their chance with Snape/Black/Lupin/Harry/Draco. I don't mind such Mary Sues, either. I have read and enjoyed very well written ones, but still, following the definition of Mary Sue = author's self insert, I do think they are Mary Sues.

So what do you think? Does Mary Sue refer merely to half-elven, half-unicorn American transfer student with super special mega powers and a dark secret? Or is every OFC who shags the author's crush a Mary Sue?


And here, gacked from everyone and their sister, the Hottest Pairings Ever:

Hottest "Gods I hate you, let's shag NOW!" pairing:	Snape/Black
Hottest "All about teh Luff" pairing:	Padfoot/Crookshanks
Hottest "Kinky beyond reason" pairing:	Voldemort/Trevor
Hottest "This is so very sick but I LOVE it" pairing:	Dobby/Draco
Hottest "OMFG this is so illegal" pairing:	Dudley/Aunt Marge
Hottest "Master and Slave" pairing:	Albus/Argus
Hottest "Morally ambiguous" pairing:	Bill/Ginny
Hottest "So effing CLICHE, but I don't care" pairing:	Harry/Ginny
Hottest "Father and Son bonding taken to the next level" pairing:	Tom Riddle Sen./Tom Riddle Jr.
Hottest Threesome pairing:	Sirius/Severus/Remus
Hottest "The more the merrier" pairing (orgy):	Sirius/Severus/Remus/Bill/Kingsley
Hottest "We're just friends that happen to shag" pairing:	Sirius/Remus
Hottest "WTF that would NEVER happen" pairing:	Minerva/Sirius
Hottest "First Time" pairing:	Sirius/Harry
Hottest "They're both so deliciously evil" pairing:	Bellatrix/Mrs. Black

The Harry Potterverse Pairings Survey brought to you by BZOINK!

I actually read the Trevor/Voldemort one. It makes sense. Really.

Comments

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

I actually read the Trevor/Voldemort one. It makes sense. Really.

I think I did, too. Voldemort had no body so he took possession of some lady-frog? And I think a mouse or rat was telling the story?

(Heh, imagine if there were more than one Trevor/Voldemort story out there!)

[frankie-lee.livejournal.com]

The definition of a Mary Sue.

Well, I think Mary Sues happen whenever the author puts an obvious charicature of themselves into a story, whether or not it grows to the rediculous proportions of a (in your words) half-elven, half-unicorn American transfer student with super special mega powers and a dark secret.

BUT, if you just give your characters bits of your personality, or perhaps stick them in a situation you've been in yourself, that doesn't count as a Mary Sue.

(Er, I'd kicked around the idea of writing a gritty, brutally unflattering, chemical/pulp fiction Mary Sue merely to parody the typical stories, but haven't gotten around to it yet.)


I actually read the Trevor/Voldemort one. It makes sense. Really.

Okay... I'm squicked, which means curious. Where?

[marksykins.livejournal.com]

Voldemort/Trevor doesn't hold a candle to Voldemort/Pikachu.

And though I'm generally intolerant of OCs, especially OFCs, as long as the character's flawed in some way, then I don't consider the character a Mary Sue.

Think of Tonks, for example. When OotP came out, a lot of people were saying, oh, she can change her appearance at will, she's JKR's Mary Sue, but I didn't see that. She's clumsy, has an anchor within the story (an Auror, Order member, and Sirius's relative), and doesn't appear to be there only for the romance. Therefore, for me, she's not a Mary Sue.

But yes, incredibly well-written stories can have Mary Sues. They're just easier to swallow if the writing's good. I think you'd do quite well at making an OFC not be a Mary Sue. I look forward to whatever you come up with.

[isiscolo.livejournal.com]

I think that part of the problem with the whole OC/Mary Sue thing is that original characters must be interesting on their own merits to people other than the author. This means a real development of character - we all *know* the canon characters, so we don't need much development, but the reader must be convinced that the OC is worth caring about.

[taelle.livejournal.com]

For me there are two main signs of a Mary Sue. First, she's better than the canon characters at what they do - better than Ron at chess, better than Hermione at research, a better Seeker than Harry etc, and the second, and the most important - they start *teaching* everyone. You know, when an OC who appeared a day ago stops the Trio's quarrel and lectures about the importance of friendship, suddenly convinces Neville to be more sure of himself, stumbles on a depressed Lupin and starts explaining to him that him being a good person is more imoprtant than lycanthropy... that's Mary Sue for you. She can be not romantically with anyone in the story, can be relatively well written, but she's the one.

[ex-milkthist86.livejournal.com]

I have a rather limited definition of Mary Sue, in that for me it inherently implies a negative title (a character must be a cliched self-insert for me to consider them a Mary Sue). There are no good or well-written Mary Sues in my mind, they are all annoying and/or cliched and/or poorly developed. In that vein, a character does not necesarily have to be 'original' to be considered one - there are plenty of Hermione/Ginny/Lily-Sues out there. If, on the other hand, she is well written, realistic, has a purpose outside of sexing up the author's favorite male character, etc, well then I consider her a legitimate original character. These are pretty rare (especially with the instant stigma attached to any female original character. Most of the good writers out there don't bother with OC at all). The only examples of legitimate original characters/non-Mary Sues that I can think of are Cassie's Rhysenn from the DT, or Lori's Allegra from PoU. So, no, an OC doesn't immediately imply a Mary Sue, at least not for me.