What's a Mary Sue?

[donnaimmaculata]

No, honestly. I entered aldalindil's It's All Been Done Fest with the pairing Lupin/OFC. Now, I consider all OFCs whose major (or sole) purpose is to shag the male character the author finds attractive a Mary Sue, regardless of how well she's written. I mean, no-one writes an OFC who ends up with Hagrid, right? They all get their chance with Snape/Black/Lupin/Harry/Draco. I don't mind such Mary Sues, either. I have read and enjoyed very well written ones, but still, following the definition of Mary Sue = author's self insert, I do think they are Mary Sues.

So what do you think? Does Mary Sue refer merely to half-elven, half-unicorn American transfer student with super special mega powers and a dark secret? Or is every OFC who shags the author's crush a Mary Sue?


And here, gacked from everyone and their sister, the Hottest Pairings Ever:

Hottest "Gods I hate you, let's shag NOW!" pairing:	Snape/Black
Hottest "All about teh Luff" pairing:	Padfoot/Crookshanks
Hottest "Kinky beyond reason" pairing:	Voldemort/Trevor
Hottest "This is so very sick but I LOVE it" pairing:	Dobby/Draco
Hottest "OMFG this is so illegal" pairing:	Dudley/Aunt Marge
Hottest "Master and Slave" pairing:	Albus/Argus
Hottest "Morally ambiguous" pairing:	Bill/Ginny
Hottest "So effing CLICHE, but I don't care" pairing:	Harry/Ginny
Hottest "Father and Son bonding taken to the next level" pairing:	Tom Riddle Sen./Tom Riddle Jr.
Hottest Threesome pairing:	Sirius/Severus/Remus
Hottest "The more the merrier" pairing (orgy):	Sirius/Severus/Remus/Bill/Kingsley
Hottest "We're just friends that happen to shag" pairing:	Sirius/Remus
Hottest "WTF that would NEVER happen" pairing:	Minerva/Sirius
Hottest "First Time" pairing:	Sirius/Harry
Hottest "They're both so deliciously evil" pairing:	Bellatrix/Mrs. Black

The Harry Potterverse Pairings Survey brought to you by BZOINK!

I actually read the Trevor/Voldemort one. It makes sense. Really.

Comments

[ex-milkthist86.livejournal.com]

I have a rather limited definition of Mary Sue, in that for me it inherently implies a negative title (a character must be a cliched self-insert for me to consider them a Mary Sue). There are no good or well-written Mary Sues in my mind, they are all annoying and/or cliched and/or poorly developed. In that vein, a character does not necesarily have to be 'original' to be considered one - there are plenty of Hermione/Ginny/Lily-Sues out there. If, on the other hand, she is well written, realistic, has a purpose outside of sexing up the author's favorite male character, etc, well then I consider her a legitimate original character. These are pretty rare (especially with the instant stigma attached to any female original character. Most of the good writers out there don't bother with OC at all). The only examples of legitimate original characters/non-Mary Sues that I can think of are Cassie's Rhysenn from the DT, or Lori's Allegra from PoU. So, no, an OC doesn't immediately imply a Mary Sue, at least not for me.

[donnaimmaculata.livejournal.com]

The problem with 'Mary Sue' is that there is no clear definition. The phrase itself implies negative connotation and no-one wants to be associated as 'that Mary Sue writer'.

I am trying to clarify it for myself. The very basic definition of a Mary Sue is 'author's insert'. But, this is not necessarily a bad thing. Many authors model their characters after themselves.

I go along with saying 'Mary Sue = annoying and cliched character'. But OTOH, I am not entirely satisfied, because I feel it's too vague. What I find annoying and cliched, is not necessarily what you would find annoying and cliched.

As I said in my reply to isiscolo, a Mary Sue is a fantasy. She stands (more than other characters do) for something the author considers as the right and desirable behaviour. And while 12-year-old OFC writers think being a uber-powerful witch is most desirable, older fanfiction authors adjust their OFCs to the realities of life as well as the realities of canon. Nevertheless, when I write Lupin/OFC, I do write a fantasy. It differs from what I would have written at the age of 12, but an OFC as protagonist defines the entire plot line, conveys my fantasy, and shags Lupin is modelled after what I think are desirable features and characteristics.