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Apr. 8th, 2004 11:33 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
donnaimmaculataThe writing of my Tom Sawyer adaptation fic got me thinking about a few things, which I feel compelled to address. For once, there is the question of Molly's reaction to a werewolf living in Grimauld Place. I assume that Molly didn't know Remus previously: his name wasn't known to her children when he started teaching, she wasn't in the Order during the first war, and there isn't really any connection between them. She is Sirius' cousin by marriage, but nothing indicates that they've known each other previously, either. Consequently, there must have been a moment between GoF and OotP when Molly learned that a werewolf would be moving in the house she and her family were staying in. (Or vice versa.)
From all that we know about Molly, she is not the most open-minded person on earth. Her reaction to the werewolf at St. Mungo's shows very clearly that she does not want any of that kind around her family. She is worried about Arthur's safety and asks whether the werewolf shouldn't be kept in a seperate ward. This happens after she had spent several month living with a werewolf under one roof, with whom she seemed to be getting along quite well. During all this time, she had the chance to learn that being a werewolf doesn't mean a person's a bloodthirsty maniac all the time and that even during the full moon, a werewolf can be kept under control. However, Molly doesn't trust werewolves as such at all. She has learned to accept Remus, but she fears 'his kind'. Consequently, she is one of those people who, in RL, don't want foreigners coming into their country because they are a smelly, stealing and generally untrustworthy bunch, but who is willing to accept that the foreign family next door is rather civilised and clean and 'not at all as the rest of them.' (I speak from the position of someone who lives as a lower-rank foreigner in a country that is not the one of my birth, and I do encounter people who tell me that they 'don't mind me' not being a native and that 'I am not at all as the rest of my lot' *rolls eyes*)
Arthur and Molly are, in spite of their acceptance of Muggles, very traditional with regard to their view on other groups: The indicators are not only their total ignorance about the Muggle way of life, but also the way Ron reacts when he learns about Remus' being a werewolf and Hagrid's being a half-giant. Plus, the Weasleys are supposedly tolerant and Muggle-loving, but they are pure-bloods. The whole clan is. (There seem to be more Weasleys, though we haven't met them yet.) In a society where pure-blood wizards are a minority, maintaining the pure-blood status requires some effort. It is therefore safe to assume that the Weasleys do marry their kind on purpose. Without a malicious attitude towards Muggles, but because of a certain distrust towards them.
I think that Remus had to fight hard to gain Molly's trust and respect. When she met him, she probably knew he was a werewolf and there was no reason whatsoever she would trust him a priori. Dumbledore probably vouched for Remus, but I doubt that would Molly make trust him. She might grudgingly accept his presence, but she would still eye him suspiciously as though expecting him to grow fangs and make for people's jugulars at any moment.
Remus, for his part, has developed a method to deal with such distrust: He does everything to appear sweet and harmless, offers the shoulder to cry on and is generally disgustingly understanding. I'm not sure whether OotP Molly genuinely likes Remus or not, but from how I interpret Remus' character, his behaviour towards Molly does not derive from friendship and respect but from necessity: He has to prevent, at all costs, to give her any ground to attack him on.
The other thing I want to mention is the sheer idiocy and blatant incompetency of the Death Eaters who fought Harry and the other children at the Ministry. This scene annoyed me more than anything else in the novel. I haven't got my OotP copy here, but from what I recall, Harry & Co. used hexes and curses such as Tarantallegra, Petrificus totalus and Stupefy - and so did the Death Eaters, because Neville ended up being hexed with Tarantallegra.
Even though their priority might have been getting the prophecy and they didn't want to risk destroying it under any circumstances - surely a bunch of skilled Death Eaters could do better than that? We haven't learned much about hexes and curses, but the fact alone that Moody's face is horribly scarred and he's got one eye and one leg missing indicate that some really badass hexes do exist, which can really, really hurt a person. Like, really. Wizard healers are, after all, able to re-grow a person's bones from the scratch (cf. CoS and OotP, where Muggles are brought to St. Mungo's for bone re-growing after encountering Willie Widdershin's (?) door knobs, or so). Unless Moody was hit by a particularly nasty form of Tarantallegra which made his leg dance even after the curse was lifted, I suppose that he was subject to something much worse. The Death Eaters who were sent to get the prophecy should have been able to use, oh, 'may your eyeballs pop out' or 'may your flesh dissolve and fall off your bones' curses and most certainly, they should have been able to block the hexes which the children were taught in their second (Duelling Club), third and fourth year.
These are just random thoughts that popped into my head whilst writing. Consider them as lengthy author's-notes-in-advance.
From all that we know about Molly, she is not the most open-minded person on earth. Her reaction to the werewolf at St. Mungo's shows very clearly that she does not want any of that kind around her family. She is worried about Arthur's safety and asks whether the werewolf shouldn't be kept in a seperate ward. This happens after she had spent several month living with a werewolf under one roof, with whom she seemed to be getting along quite well. During all this time, she had the chance to learn that being a werewolf doesn't mean a person's a bloodthirsty maniac all the time and that even during the full moon, a werewolf can be kept under control. However, Molly doesn't trust werewolves as such at all. She has learned to accept Remus, but she fears 'his kind'. Consequently, she is one of those people who, in RL, don't want foreigners coming into their country because they are a smelly, stealing and generally untrustworthy bunch, but who is willing to accept that the foreign family next door is rather civilised and clean and 'not at all as the rest of them.' (I speak from the position of someone who lives as a lower-rank foreigner in a country that is not the one of my birth, and I do encounter people who tell me that they 'don't mind me' not being a native and that 'I am not at all as the rest of my lot' *rolls eyes*)
Arthur and Molly are, in spite of their acceptance of Muggles, very traditional with regard to their view on other groups: The indicators are not only their total ignorance about the Muggle way of life, but also the way Ron reacts when he learns about Remus' being a werewolf and Hagrid's being a half-giant. Plus, the Weasleys are supposedly tolerant and Muggle-loving, but they are pure-bloods. The whole clan is. (There seem to be more Weasleys, though we haven't met them yet.) In a society where pure-blood wizards are a minority, maintaining the pure-blood status requires some effort. It is therefore safe to assume that the Weasleys do marry their kind on purpose. Without a malicious attitude towards Muggles, but because of a certain distrust towards them.
I think that Remus had to fight hard to gain Molly's trust and respect. When she met him, she probably knew he was a werewolf and there was no reason whatsoever she would trust him a priori. Dumbledore probably vouched for Remus, but I doubt that would Molly make trust him. She might grudgingly accept his presence, but she would still eye him suspiciously as though expecting him to grow fangs and make for people's jugulars at any moment.
Remus, for his part, has developed a method to deal with such distrust: He does everything to appear sweet and harmless, offers the shoulder to cry on and is generally disgustingly understanding. I'm not sure whether OotP Molly genuinely likes Remus or not, but from how I interpret Remus' character, his behaviour towards Molly does not derive from friendship and respect but from necessity: He has to prevent, at all costs, to give her any ground to attack him on.
The other thing I want to mention is the sheer idiocy and blatant incompetency of the Death Eaters who fought Harry and the other children at the Ministry. This scene annoyed me more than anything else in the novel. I haven't got my OotP copy here, but from what I recall, Harry & Co. used hexes and curses such as Tarantallegra, Petrificus totalus and Stupefy - and so did the Death Eaters, because Neville ended up being hexed with Tarantallegra.
Even though their priority might have been getting the prophecy and they didn't want to risk destroying it under any circumstances - surely a bunch of skilled Death Eaters could do better than that? We haven't learned much about hexes and curses, but the fact alone that Moody's face is horribly scarred and he's got one eye and one leg missing indicate that some really badass hexes do exist, which can really, really hurt a person. Like, really. Wizard healers are, after all, able to re-grow a person's bones from the scratch (cf. CoS and OotP, where Muggles are brought to St. Mungo's for bone re-growing after encountering Willie Widdershin's (?) door knobs, or so). Unless Moody was hit by a particularly nasty form of Tarantallegra which made his leg dance even after the curse was lifted, I suppose that he was subject to something much worse. The Death Eaters who were sent to get the prophecy should have been able to use, oh, 'may your eyeballs pop out' or 'may your flesh dissolve and fall off your bones' curses and most certainly, they should have been able to block the hexes which the children were taught in their second (Duelling Club), third and fourth year.
These are just random thoughts that popped into my head whilst writing. Consider them as lengthy author's-notes-in-advance.
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just a thought...
Date: 2004-04-08 02:45 pm (UTC)almost all of them were recent escapees from Azkaban and as such not in their right minds...could that possibly explain their pathetic performance?
Re: just a thought...
Date: 2004-04-08 03:00 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-04-08 03:37 pm (UTC)Ooh, also, maybe Voldemort *told* them not to use anything too heavy-duty, because he wanted to get in, get the prophecy, and get out. It wasn't in his best interest for the Ministry to know he'd returned, after all. If there was evidence of hexes beyond the abilities of young Hogwarts students, that'd be a big old clue there was some Dark Magic afoot...
Ahh... if it weren't for those meddlesome kids! :D
Re: just a thought...
Date: 2004-04-09 12:57 am (UTC)(really i'm just playing devil's advocate here...)
Re: just a thought...
Date: 2004-04-09 05:33 am (UTC)Yep. And that's why he was more likely to lose his magical abilities, alongside with his humanity.
(I've just developed the idea of a rehabilitation centre cum Death Eater training camp at Voldie's post GoF.)
no subject
Date: 2004-04-09 05:50 am (UTC)Ooh, also, maybe Voldemort *told* them not to use anything too heavy-duty, because he wanted to get in, get the prophecy, and get out.
That's a possibility. Or maybe he said, "And bring me Potter... Alive!" all the while petting his
catsnake.Nevertheless, for my purposes, I have immortal badass wizard Voldemort act in a more competent manner when fighting a 15-year-old Hogwarts student. ("Tarantallegra, Potter? You want me to dance for you? [insert horrible may-your-guts-turn-inside-out curse here]")
no subject
Date: 2004-04-09 06:40 am (UTC)Brilliante Analyse einer "Toleranz", die eigentlich nicht sehr weit geht. (Und erinnert
uns das nicht an den einen "anständigen Juden", die löbliche Ausnahme, den im 3. Reich
jeder kannte?)
A.J.Hall hat vor einiger Zeit (ich glaube im Zusammenhang mit dem Fragen-an-die
Charaktere-Meme)ihre Version eines geläuterten Draco mit ganz ähnlichen Argumenten
verteidigt. Geläutert muß man ihrer Meining nach im Kontext der Zaubererwelt und den
dort geltenden Standards sehen und wenn man die Weasleys als Beispiel für Toleranz und
Aufgeschlossenheit hernimmt, dann ist nicht viel vonnöten, um jemanden als gebessert
durchgehen zu lassen.
2) Wäre es völlig daneben und unhöflich, Dich nach Deinem Geburtsland zu fragen?
no subject
Date: 2004-04-09 07:33 am (UTC)Das Beispiel mit den Juden ist genau das, woran ich u.a. auch gedacht habe. Menschen, die an und für sich durchaus dafür waren, dass die Juden als Rasse verschwinden, waren schockiert zu sehen, dass das ebenfalls die netten Betreiber des Tante-Emma-Ladens nebenan mit einschließen würde. Und Molly sehe ich so, so sehr als dieser Denkweise angehörend.
Ich finde es schwierig, von einem 'geläuterten' Draco zu sprechen, weil der Junge bisher noch nichts getan hat, was eine Läuterung notwendig machen würde. Ich mag Draco nicht. Er ist ein verzogenes Blag, das - im Alter von 15 Jahren! - immer noch nach Papa ruft, wenn es Probleme gibt. Und seine Obsession mit Harry ist bemitleidenswert. Aber - er hat nichts getan, was ihn als böse qualifizieren würde.
Wir mögen die Weasleys, weil Harry sie mag. Wir haben dadurch mehr Einsicht in ihre Beweggründe und ihre Denkweise. Aber aufgeschlossen sind sie nicht gerade. Vor allem Molly nicht.
Wäre es völlig daneben und unhöflich, Dich nach Deinem Geburtsland zu fragen?
Keinesfalls. Ich bin in Polen geboren, aber ich lebe seit Jahrzehnten in Deutschland.
no subject
Date: 2004-04-09 08:32 am (UTC)Und ja, jetzt verstehe ich die Anmerkung zu Deinen persönlichen Erfahrungen besser...
Man weiß nicht, was schlimmer ist: die Leute, die sich nicht entblöden, solche Dinge auszusprechen und wahrscheinlich noch meinen, sie machen ein Kompliment, oder die, denen man ansieht, daß sie genau das denken und sich gerade noch zurückhalten können, es zu sagen!
Es lag mir übrigens fern, hier eine Diskussion darüber loszutreten, ob Draco Malfoy noch zu retten ist oder nicht. Mir kam es auf Halls Bemerkungen über die Weasleys an und da sie, wie so oft bei Ihr, die Sache ziemlich auf den Punkt brachten, habe ich überlegt, in welchem Zusammenhang sie darüber gesprochen hatte.
Auf Deine Tom-Sawyer-Geschichte freue ich mich riesig! :-)
no subject
Date: 2004-04-09 08:48 am (UTC)Eine arabisch-stämmige Freunding von mir hatte mal ein herrliches Gespräch mit einer schwäbischen Vermieterin (Kittelschürze, Kopftuch, Besen in der Hand...), die während der Besichtigung des Hauses erzählte, "Hier wohnt ein Chinese, aber der ist sauber... und hier ein Araber, aber der ist auch sauber. Und ganz leise" usw. usf. Zum Schluss kriegte sie mit, dass die arabisch-stämmige Freundin eben das ist, nämlich arabisch-stämmig, und meinte, "Aber das sieht man ihnen ja gar nicht an. Sie sehen ja aus wie ich!" Woraufhin die Freundin alles andere als geschmeichelt war - und die Wohnung auch nicht nahm.
Es lag mir übrigens fern, hier eine Diskussion darüber loszutreten, ob Draco Malfoy noch zu retten ist oder nicht.
Oh, ich liebe Diskussionen über die Charaktere. Ich bin geradezu besessen...
Tom Sawyer entsteht im Rahmen der Classic Canon Challenge und kommt wahrscheinlich so im Juni... Wenn ich mal zur Abwechselung den Termin einhalte.
no subject
Date: 2004-04-09 10:10 am (UTC)Was die Einstellung der 'tolleranten' Zauberer angeht, da hast du völlich recht. Ich bin eine Deutsche tschechischer Herrkunft und ich lebe seit 14 Jahren in Deutschland. Ich habe schon vor Jahren aufgegeben mich über gewisse Dinge aufzuregen. Aber andererseits, dieses xenofobische Verhalten beobachte ich bei meinen Verwandten in Tschechien auch. Es kommt immer davon, daß die Leute viel zu bequem sind über den Rand ihrer Welt hinauszuschauen.
no subject
Date: 2004-04-09 10:24 am (UTC)Molly verdient ein ausführliches Essay.
Aber andererseits, dieses xenofobische Verhalten beobachte ich bei meinen Verwandten in Tschechien auch.
Das Verhalten ist nicht nationalitätsspezifisch. Ich halte die Deutschen keinesfalls für ein besonders ausländerfeindliches Land - man wird überall mit Xenophobie konfrontiert. Es ist auch ein natürliches Verhalten der Menschen, dem "Fremden" an sich mit Mißtrauen zu begegnen. Ich rege mich auch über vieles gar nicht auf; Gedankenlosigkeit amüsiert mich im Allgemeinen, und nur wenn es verletzend oder gar gewalttätig wid, finde ich es notwendig einzugreifen.
no subject
Date: 2004-04-09 11:38 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-04-13 02:08 pm (UTC)if lucius is just trying to fulfill his master's orders with the least attention/trouble possible........... after all, voldemort's been defeated by an infant once already, and lucius has a pretty sweet position in the ministry as it is... i think he thinks his death eater days are over. that was when lord thingy was going to WIN. so now, he just wants to do enough to satisfy his (former) lord and get the hell out of there.... sadly for him, he gets arrested anyway.
as for bellatrix and the others, throw azkaban insanity into the question......
no subject
Date: 2004-04-14 02:25 am (UTC)Bellatrix seems to be more than able and willing to perform the Cruciatus curse at the end. Why not earlier?
no subject
Date: 2004-04-24 12:10 pm (UTC)Now, just a minute. I do agree with your analysis of teh Weasley clan and of Remus motivations- I agree completely. But allow me a moment for making the case that Remus is even more of a SOB (ho-hum, you say)and that Wizarding Society is has a lot of mercy there.
When Snape revealed Remus' status, Dumbledore resisted Remus going off and resigning. Yet, Remus did. And yes, there are the anti- werewolf laws that were put into place, making things even harder. Yet, people are no after Remus' blood, trying to lynch him. In fact, people call him up to talk to a man who was bitten by werewolf, so that he can learn how to deal with the condition.
I think that says more about Remus frame of mind that he does not decide to fight for his position at Hogwarts. He would have had to fight for respect. He would have to endure comments and hurtful, cruel remarks. He would have Severus then in his face, rubbing it in face what he was. In other words, he would have had to swallow his medicine that was dished out to Another, To Remain Unnamed Person years ago. He could done that, and kept his position, and he would have had Dumbledore's support. But he didn't.
What does he say to Harry? "I am not exactly the most popular person in the Wizarding World right now."
And there, there is Remus real Achilles Heel ( and before you kick my butt, Severus doesn't just have an Achilles heel, but a shoulder and torso, too!)I am not saying that Remus is not a strong, good person (I happen to think that he is) but he is rather distrustful of wizarding society , than WS could be to him.
Or perhaps he sees teh ugly exploitativeness of his own nature and projects that into the WW at large.
no subject
Date: 2004-04-24 01:47 pm (UTC)OK, so before I launch into the answer, just a quick clarification: I like Severus. But I also happen to like Sirius and Remus, and I try to measure them with the same standards. The fact that you've mostly seen me defend Remus is merely because more often than not it was a comment on a hardcore pro-Snape discussion.
I fully agree with what you say about Remus' prefering not to stay and fight, as well as with the whole 'dodging responsibility' thing. He is, in a way, very selfish because this is the only method to defend himself he sees.
I think the key to the entire Severus vs. Sirius/Remus (I just put them together to simplify things) debate is not the objective morality of these men but the way we (generic) evaluate their behaviour. They've all made mistakes, the quantity of which differs but not so much the quality: Remus repetedly refuses to face confrontation and take responsibility, Severus refuses to let go of old hurt, chooses to hurt others because he has been hurt and ends up a Death Eater, and Sirius stubbornly continues underestimating other people. (This, I think, is Sirius' biggest fault. He thinks he's dead clever and underestimates Peter and Kreacher, both of whom become his downfall. As to Severus, Sirius' crime is that he doesn't estimate him, doesn't think of him as a worthy human being.)
They've all been hurt in different ways, and they've all invented certain defense mechanisms; I just happen to like that one of Remus', because I've got this big thing for quiet composure. Morally, he is not superior. On the contrary, I think Remus is a highly amoral person (other that Sirius, who has, however twisted, certain moral standards which he follows.) But just as you understand Severus' behaviour before his background, I understand Remus' behaviour, because passive resistance is also my method of avoiding conflicts. I don't think it is the morally superior one (and dead annoying to others), but it is the one which I understand best.
He would have to endure comments and hurtful, cruel remarks.
And because he doesn't want to endure them, he not only desperately tries to make people like him, but also uses self-irony to prevent others saying them. ('And I'm not a very popular dinner guest with most of the community,' said Lupin. 'It's an occupational hazard of being a werewolf.' OotP) This is also a very popular self-defense mechanisms: Don't show them where it hurts by pretending it doesn't hurt at all. Said in a light, off-handed tone, the remark makes people who would like to use it against him think, 'Ah well, no point in wasting my breath. He won't care anyway.'
As I said, I understand Remus' defenses very well and therefore can't condemn him for using them. I think Remus' strength lies in the fact that he took his weaknesses - his williness to avoid conflicts, his inability to launch into a direct fight, his reluctance to act - and turned them into a weapon.