Tell me, how do you write...

[donnaimmaculata]

We're all familiar with the problem: the basic idea is there, it only needs to be wrapped in words. And as tartanshell pointed out so rightly, this is often difficult or bording on impossible. Even if you manage to write down your brilliant ideas, they seem bland and stupid as soon as you see them on paper, and words turn out to not be your friend.

So what about your own writing keeps you going? I don't mean stuff like the craving for feedback, or impeding deadlines or the fact that you promised someone a fic. Obviously, we write because we enjoy writing. And I'd like to know what is it that you, dear authors, like about your own fics and how you go on about creating them. I'm particularly interested in your writing processes. Do you have a plot all worked out and write down concepts, or do you write instinctively? I know maeglinyedi once said that she's always got the last sentence of the fic ready before she starts writing, which I find quite impressive, as the last sentence is what I almost always struggle with a lot.

As to me, I think that I'm a very dialogue-based author. I often have dialogue snippets ready long before the fic, I enjoy writing dialogues and dialogues are also what I feel most confident about - as opposed to introspections and descriptions, my feeling for which is rather wobbly. The final dialogue between Remus and Bill in Genesis, for example, was written in one of the first stages of the process. Because I tend to focus on dialogues, I often have a) no plot to speak of and b) my characters drink ridiculous amounts of water so that I can intersperse the dialogue with pretences of action - as illustrated in the aforementioned cock-and-tongue-talk:

"I don't mean to be - you know-" Bill said.

"Eloquent?" Remus supplied, the corners of his mouth twitching.

Bill flashed a brief grin. He shifted and tossed his hair back. Remus was watching him with lazy eyes. Bill raised one shoulder in a half-shrug.

"I guess I just want to know whether-" he paused, looking down at Remus, his head tilted, "how deep this runs, really."

"You've just had your cock up my arse," said Remus lightly. "I'd say that's pretty deep."

"Not to forget my tongue." Bill nodded. "I've had my tongue up your arse as well." He watched the other man for a moment and said, just as lightly, "So that's what this is all about? Cock and tongue?"

Remus blinked and shifted. "Bill," he said.

"That's okay, you know," Bill cut in. "I'm not- I'd only like to know." He turned around and reached for the nightstand. "Want some water?"

Remus took the offered glass automatically. "Bill." He pushed himself upright, propped up on his elbow. "It's just... I am not-" he paused, looking bewildered.

"Eloquent?" Bill smirked. Remus smiled weakly. "It's okay. You don't owe me anything. But, you know," he shrugged. "We are in the middle of a war. I could be dead tomorrow. You could be dead tomorrow." He turned his head to face Remus, watching him intently. "I don't want to miss a chance, if this is what it is."

"I see," said Remus.

"Good." Bill fell back onto the pillow and closed his eyes. "God, I really need to sleep," he muttered. "Unless you'd like to shag some more, in which case I'll be happy to oblige."

So, my fics aren't plotty, my characters are wordy (which doesn't mean that they actually communicate matters of importance!), and I even announced Panic as PWPBWLOD - Porn Without Plot But With Lots Of Dialogue.

But - to come back to my original question - I usually make the effort to create a framework around my dialogues, which is how I manage to continue writing. Because the dialogues are all there in my head and need to be let out.

They're talking to me.

Comments

[electricandroid.livejournal.com]

Might sound odd, but my writing is a case of trying to describe the picture postcards in my head. Which is why, until very recently, I have been completely unable to do dialogue. The postcards have only started moving now, if that makes any sense what so ever!

Why I write, its a way to relax, since I draw for uni. And I get to play with fantasy characters, explore situations. It is almost like a game of chess, moving the pieces around and seeing what opportunities lie before you.

Okay, that sounded like a pretentious pile of wank, but it is the closest I can come to explaining the how and the why :)

*hugs*

e.a.

[donnaimmaculata.livejournal.com]

Oh no, not odd at all! Nor pretentious. This is exactly what I wanted to know :-)

It seems your approach is the exact opposite of mine. I usually don't see the whole picture; I see single scenes and have a general idea of the plot and try to create the picture postcard using these elements.

its a way to relax, since I draw for uni

I write to earn a living, but my professional texts are very technical and/or commercial, and writing pornographic fanfiction is definitely a method of relaxation for me, too. I am generally most prolific when procrastinating work.

[trobadora]

I know maeglinyedi once said that she's always got the last sentence of the fic ready before she starts writing, which I find quite impressive, as the last sentence is what I almost always struggle with a lot.

As to me, I think that I'm a very dialogue-based author. I often have dialogue snippets ready long before the fic, I enjoy writing dialogues and dialogues are also what I feel most confident about - as opposed to introspections and descriptions, my feeling for which is rather wobbly.

Fascinating! I'm exactly the opposite - I usually write introspection and action, and finally fill in dialogue - dialogue is what is hardest for me to write. And as for endings - these are the easiest things for me. Beginnings and middles are much harder. The story I'm currently writing (that I've been writing on and off since last August, in fact) started off with an ending that practically wrote itself, and then I tried to come up with a story that could fit it. And what I did come up with turned out to be the sequel of another story that needs to be written first... and all of that just to get to that one ending scene I rather liked!

[donnaimmaculata.livejournal.com]

I hardly write any introspection at all, and every time I do, I feel very clumsy about it. I feel as though I was telling too much or not enough and I struggle to find the golden mean. Besides, I'm often not too sure what makes my characters tick: When I was writing The Last Resort, I had no idea until the end (still haven't) what made Snape shag Sirius eventually, but I think that the way the dialogue flows the development feels plausible enough. So, basically, my characterisation is all fake and fluke ;-)

I'm confident about dialogues because I know how people talk, even though I don't know what they think. I don't claim that my dialogues are flawless or anything, but they are that part of my writing I have least difficulties and most fun with. I usually have a good idea of the flow of the dialogue from the start, and then tweak it into shape by adding descriptions of the characters' actions and glances and water-drinking and by getting rid of redundant information to make it more snappy.

and all of that just to get to that one ending scene I rather liked!

While I write to include dialogue snippets I rather like!

[hippediva.livejournal.com]

I guess I would have to call myself instinctive. I usually have a basic plot idea to work with and the characterisation in my head, plus whatever character arc I want to result from the plot. Sometimes, I do outline, especially if I'm working on a particularly complex piece, like a mystery.

I have never had problems writing descriptive or expositional prose. Dialogue on the other hand came harder to me and I've found that over the past 2 years, my ability with it has improved dramatically. (writing in OUATIM has done wonders for me there!) I do find that I write very differently depending on fandom and my original work is all dependent on the plot/characters. In POTC, I have much more leeway with lyricism and descriptive passages. In OUATIM, I found that, for the most part, I strip down my style and make the dialogue work harder. I suppose I look at it as the difference in writing certain kinds of poetry: a haiku is going to require a certain type of phrasing, word choice,etc. and those choices will not necessary work for a sonnet or sestina.

My memory and imagination tend to work like moving pictures: I can rewind my memory and virtually 'playback' anything in near-photographic detail. My imagination works the same way---I 'see' the scene, 'hear' the dialogue and the rest is like composing music: how to phrase what I'm 'watching' in my head, which words hit the right notes, how to make the 'music' of the language suit the scene.

Fascinating discussion! And good to see you again! *G*

[donnaimmaculata.livejournal.com]

I do find that I write very differently depending on fandom and my original work is all dependent on the plot/characters.

So do I. I write mostly in Harry Potter, which, in spite of being a fantasy universe, is the fandom in which I focus strongly on realism. The OuaTiM stuff I've written is completely different: I don't really go for realism there (Sands/Satan - hello?), but for that larger-than-life action and over-the-top dialogues which make the movies so much fun. It is OuaTiM that triggered my musings on writing techniques, actually, because I've got several dialogue snippets sitting on my harddrive, which need to be wrapped up in a story ;-)

My imagination works the same way---I 'see' the scene, 'hear' the dialogue and the rest is like composing music: how to phrase what I'm 'watching' in my head, which words hit the right notes,

I've got a pretty accurate picture of the scenes, too, but it's very character-driven. I see how the characters act and what they say - the setting is somewhat marginal. And it's always the dialogue that is easiest to put down in words. Writing dialogue feels natural to me; writing descriptions requires more effort.

Nice to see you, too! I realise you had quite a hard time lately, so it's good to see you're well :-)

[oakwonder.livejournal.com]

Joyce Grenfell was asked where she got her ideas from. 'I don't know. If I did I'd go there again.'

After a successful story I have no idea how I could do another one like it. It doesn't help: I don't seem to have learnt anything. Characters mostly come out of dialogue rather than vice versa; I find dialogue easy, and I explore characters by having them talk rather than by describing their thoughts. But I noticed recently that great novelists describe thoughts a lot: surprisingly much, since it seems to go against the naive show-not-tell dictum. So I'm going to have to learn to introspect and theorize more rather than relying on the easy explication.

When I am successful in a stretch of writing (a few paragraphs, a page, seldom a whole story) it's by tracking it cinematically: I see and hear what's happening, then write that down. The icing on the cake, or the depth, is given by subtle shifts of point of view, speeding up or slowing down, minor distractions, all sorts of wavering or fractal variations on the main narrative.

[donnaimmaculata.livejournal.com]

'I don't know. If I did I'd go there again.'

Well said!

Although, it's not exactly having ideas that is a problem; it's only that ideas often turn bland and pointless when I put them down in writing.

After a successful story I have no idea how I could do another one like it. I don't seem to have learnt anything.

Every author views a new story as an entirely new product, I think, which requires quite as much effort as any previous stories did. I think we are learning a lot, but we don't realise it, because what we learn is instantly incorporated as established knowledge, if you know what I mean. We don't document every single step of the progress. I know that I have learned quite a lot in the months as a fic author, but that knowledge doesn't stop me from agonising over every new fic, because I am aware of how insufficient my skills still are.

Also, I write a certain set of characters and I have fixed characterisations. Consequently, I often feel as though I repeat myself, because I use the same characters over and over again and their motivations/speech patterns etc. hardly vary.

I explore characters by having them talk rather than by describing their thoughts.

Yeah, me too. But at the same time, I theorise a lot about the characters in essays and discussions, so I don't feel the need to put any introspection in the fics as well.

[skylark97.livejournal.com]

Yay for dialogue! I love dialogue, even if I'm not always sure how to write it myself. Even when I'm reading, I want characters to talk to me or at me if they aren't talking to each other.

Er, so yeah, when characters start talking in my head I write it down. Or try at least. And if an idea doesn't have solid dialogue behind it, the chances of me writing it go down significantly because I just don't have the mad skillz needed to set the scene, moods and characterizations through description instead. I like playing around with introspection but those things never either get finished or go past a thousand words. >_>;;

I'd have to say I write instinctively, and that most of the time, getting anything finished is just pure serendipity. Most of what I write or think about writing is just an extended version of the daydreams that I have to keep myself amused during various parts and activities during the day. Sometimes it's only entertaining in my head and occasionally I can kind of sort of make it interesting on paper. And since my daydreams are kind of along the lines of cutting up a movie, mixing up all the pieces and then watching the parts that look the most interesting in no particular order, I have a hard time with plotting and making a plot make sense. >_>;; Sometimes it's only mental therapy too, since I'm a bit of a selfish writer in that respect.

my characters drink ridiculous amounts of water so that I can intersperse the dialogue with pretences of action

*laughs* I think it's one of those things that just comes with dialogue. Before I figured out how to do that I had elipses running rampant. >_>;; And it's not like you can have them doing actions that need explanations or have a great deal more deeper meaning because then the dialogue gets lost to what's physically happening. Sometimes that works better. Like in some sex scenes, it really doesn't matter what they're saying, the dialogue is there merely to break up the long action sequences.

Definitely an interesting question. In my next life, I want to be one of those people who knows the last sentence of a story or how a fic ends before it starts. Usually, when I know how something ends, I lose all desire to write it down. X_x And I can't write anything out of sequence or it confuses the hell out of me. (Which might be why my daydreams always seem better than they are. Daydreams aren't required to make logical sense and the loose ends don't have to be tied up. Or, at least, mine are like that.)

[donnaimmaculata.livejournal.com]

We're, like, psychically connected or something! I don't have anything to add, apart from me too, me too and me too. Especially to all that you say about daydreams and fanfics being an extension thereof. I'm not guilty of writing Mary Sues, but it's only because I don't write any OFCs. However, I do sneak in characterisations that reflect my wishful thinking; i.e. I write those characters as I want them to be not as Rowling meant them to be. I know that I'm not alone with this, but I am aware of it and do it nevertheless. Still, seem to get away with it so far...

I like writing the little actions that are interspersed in dialogue. They're easy, they're fun and they make me feel as though there were real people talking. It always gives me a thrill when I see other authors do it as well. Rowling does it quite beautifully, and I love her Sirius scratching Crookshanks behind the ears.

Usually, when I know how something ends, I lose all desire to write it down.

Can I just say, "me too"? For a longer, action-oriented fic, I need to have a plot outline. But my shorter fics have all been written quite instinctively and I didn't work towards a goal. It makes the entire writing process more organic, I guess, but is also a reason what I don't write novels: the necessity for having a plot concept is more than I can bear.

[goldennotblonde.livejournal.com]

Plot is a problem for me. When it does manage to develop, it usually revolves around an idea or a question, like "Do wizards know about popcorn?" or "Can I make sucking on honeysuckle flowers suggestive?" Embarassing Snape is always fun.

I like words that sound pretty, even if I don't expect them to make much sense to anyone but me, like:

There were times he would wake up at night, Remus' name on his lips, but holding it back, because it would hurt too much to hear it, separated as they were by iron, deceased misunderstanding, miles of frigid water, and the cold hearth of his own mind.

This makes me happy. Sometimes writing is like crafting a poem for me, because I'm careful not to repeat words unless I mean to, and pay attention to the way something sounds when read aloud, avoiding rhymes they would be awkward. When a phrase is right, it really almost 'clicks,' and I get excited. It makes me think I'm making progress and actually learning something.

I like to create mood, and it's always squeeworthy when someone tells me I've succeeded, because then I know it's not all in my own mind.

Sometimes I'll be cooking, and a sentence will pop into my head, usually something silly and dramatic, but I've got to write it down immediately before I forget it. I never know the plot when I start.

Dialogue is very difficult for me; I'll write entire fics with only a few lines of text in quotes. Keeping dialogue in character is quite a challenge for me, but some characters are easier than others. I love Snape's snark, and Lupin's careful polite civility, but writing Harry's teenage angst or Hermione the know-it-all is beyond me.

[donnaimmaculata.livejournal.com]

it usually revolves around an idea or a question, like "Do wizards know about popcorn?" or "Can I make sucking on honeysuckle flowers suggestive?"

I regularly spend hours researching and rearranging minor details like that. It slows me down considerably.

When a phrase is right, it really almost 'clicks,' and I get excited.

I'm usually unable to "feel" my writing during the writing process or immediately afterwards. Also, I'm not a poetic writer; I'm rather matter-of-fact (which is also why I feel more confident about dialogue; dialogues are matter-of-fact), and I don't think my language is particularly emotional, even though I use it as means to convey emotions. I can best judge on my writing from a distance of several days or longer. This is particularly true for smut or humour, because when I reread it right after writing it, I see the single words rather than a passage as a whole. An additional difficulty is that I'm not a native speaker - I am more word-conscious therefore, as I had to actively memorise every single word at some point. In English, I don't trust my own "feeling" for words as much as I trust my "knowledge" of them, you know? I often look up words and phrases because I am uncertain when and where I've learned them.

[goldennotblonde.livejournal.com]

I regularly spend hours researching and rearranging minor details like that. It slows me down considerably.

Me too, but it is also what gets me started on plots I can live with. I had to find out if Honeysuckle even grew in the UK, what varieties were available or common, was it edible, what it looked like, etc. The berries are apparrently quite poisonous. <333's hp_britglish very much. I think Professor Sprout and I would get along very well. *g* I need to write Neville herbology fic. Hee!

I can't even imagine writing in a language not English. I'm an Ignorant American, the kind that only speaks one or two languages, and the second not fluently at all.

That said, I maintain that English is a senseless language which often follows no rules of logic whatsoever and is eternally frustrating to those who wish to learn it. Nevertheless, I am slowly learning to appreciate the melody inherent in every language and how to control the combinations of sounds apart from the individual meanings.

[oxoniensis.livejournal.com]

I vary wildly. My last but one story started with a title, and then I developed a starting point, a mystery, which I spent great care solving and incorporating the fandom's myth arc into. So I had two pages of detailed notes before I started the story.

Occasionally I'll wake up in the middle of the night and two characters are talking to each other, so it's a mad scramble to get the dialogue down, but that's fairly rare for me unless I'm writing in the Sorkin universe. His characters are just so verbose! *g*

Most often though, I have a starting point, which may be a word prompt, or a line of poetry that makes me think of a pairing, or a picture, and I get a first line in my head, and then I just write. On a good day, the words just pour out. Ideas will develop as I go along, a theme will emerge and guide the process, pictures will emerge. Sometimes I'll write a sentence that I love so much that I'll base the entire story around it! And so I write.

[julia-fractal.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the thought-provoking post!

What keeps me going is the knowledge that I will get better if I just keep on writing. Also, I'm usually pleasantly surprised when I look at the old stuff I've written. Yes the mistakes and weaknesses are still there, but they don't seem so glaring after a while. I love how permanent writing is, and the fact that even though I may be able to write the same story again, there will always be a permanent record of those particular thoughts and ideas as long as I managed to set the words on paper.

My starting point is usually a theme, feeling, or idea, and it could usually be summed up in a sentence. My biggest problem is coming up with scenes and plot to illustrate the point.

[themegaloo.livejournal.com]

Mine are a mix of talking like mad (I'll go one for PAGES) or huge descriptions. But it's almost all tounge-in-cheek unless I have a damned good reason for the angstyness.

I usually plan out the first line (because it's so vital and needs to hook the reader!) and the last line (because that's what convinces the reader to leave a comment). Usually. It's like with a play, you remember the opening number and the finale most clearly after you leave. Oh, and finale Act 1 if it's a two-act musical because the playwrite had to force the audience to come back after intermission SOMEHOW...

Which is why you get witty lines at the end of each chapter from me. If I can. I always try. Plus at the same time, I love to tie things together. Make it all fit. Not necessarily the last line reflecting the first (though I *do* love doing that...particularly with one-shots), but like, I wrote a 6-chaptered fic in which the last line of every chapter was a variation of 'It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing'. After all, it was CALLED 'It Don't Mean a Thing', so I figured a little structure somewhere would be good...'Course when I wrote it my grammar sucked and I have no beta to this date...thus it has been recently re-done and more of this sort of thing added in and tweaked a touch.

Structure keeps me writing. Structure and style and patterns...

I am so damned weird. I like books for peculiar structures too you know...I think I'm the only person in my senior English class last year that loved Heart of Darkness, and it was purely for the syntax. Syntax and I could have a lovely affair. Honestly.

(shameless plug: 'It Don't Mean a Thing is a Remus/Sirius fic that can be found on my fic journal: lilapotterfics. I love it. And it's now free of grammatical errors...)

That would be the other thing, my fics grab me and don't let go, I fall in love with the characters and their plots and they won't leave me alone until it's all said and done with.

But that's normal.

[tears-of-nienna.livejournal.com]

I know maeglinyedi once said that she's always got the last sentence of the fic ready before she starts writing

I find that's how I tend to write as well; I have a last line and a wisp of a plot, and I try to build from there. It's no guarantee--some fics of mine have an entire final paragraph and they're not going anywhere, and another has my favorite last line of all my fics but can't get rolling until I've written a minor sex scene, and I can't get it written to a point where I don't smirk at the euphemisms. But while the sex scene is vital, it's not the point of the story, so I don't want to overdo it... [/tangent]

However, my stories rarely extend beyond 2,000 words. So I've got a smaller space in which to lead my fic astray before bringing it back to the conclusion. I'm in awe of anyone who can write a novel-length fic with the motivation of a last line.

That being said, of course, the problem is how to begin. I always wind up starting stories in the middle and saying "I'll go write the exposition later..." and then I get lazy and decide that in medias res was always how they told us to start a story in high school, so I shouldn't have to put exposition in. This is not a particularly swell writing technique.

Also, I find reading Latin really helps when I write Tolkien fics. Something about Cicero and the Elves just seems to work.

[queenofzan.livejournal.com]

As Heinlen often said, writing is a disease. I used to write because I enjoyed it, but now I write because I have to. I either write or I draw. And since I'm not that great an artist, writing it is! If I don't write, I get all moody nand scatter-brained and generally quite scary to be around.

More than usual, anyway.

Also: writing is the easiest way to manipulate people's lives without consequences that affect you when the Sims doesn't work. :D

p.s. I just realized that I came off sounding kind of pretentious, which is strange, because I generally am not pretentious when sick. Huh. Weird.

[xochiquetzl]

I usually want to know what happens next. ;)

[mercurycirce.livejournal.com]

I hate my writing. Plus I tend to take it to people who are really critical and I'm easily offended so it's hard. I've asked people to help me but nobody really seems to want to and I'm okay with that. I mean, my Britisisms are fine, obviously ;) Um, like you, my dialogue is really good - I enjoy writing it. My ideas are different. But I have trouble glueing it together. I've tried looking for communities to help out but there don't seem to be any.

[mercurycirce.livejournal.com]

Actually, what I'm asking you is, am I a hopeless case? ;)