This is where My!Remus comes from

[donnaimmaculata]

I was considering doing that "Post a list of 10 TV shows you watch and have your friends guess your favourite character" meme, but then I thought that it's way too easy. Name the thin dark-haired one and in you're likely to be right. Not much of a challenge.

Remus, then. rosina_alcona promised me chocolate if I talk about him, and even though I don't really like chocolate (I like chocolates, though!), I'd rather eat chocolate than work. So there.

It's no secret that I like Remus - not because he's nice, but because he is cool. I've got a very strong impression of what Remus is like(1). In fact, it is so strong that I don't read fics in which he is presented in a distinctly different manner, because, if this is the case, I don't recognise the character as Remus. Thewlis' Remus, for instance, did nothing for me - the character on screen didn't match in any way with the image I carry of Remus.

Reviewers have referred to my Remus as: "bad", "evil", "ruthless", "immoral" and "slutty" and some have expressed their bewilderment about my characterisation of him. I have my reasons for writing him that way, and I claim that I extrapolate from canon and don't use characteristics that aren't alluded to in the books. However, I place a different emphasis.

Remus was the character I fell in love with and which made me read Harry Potter in the first place. While I liked him all throughout PoA, the moment that really did it for me was the quiet, "Well hello, Peter. Long time, no see". This simple sentence sent shivers down my spine (still does), and I was completely lost. In this moment, Peter is dead and he knows it.

The whole Shrieking Shack scene and the way how Remus was in complete control of it has been frequently discussed. Remus works his way towards killing Peter, but he does it slowly and deliberately. He doesn't rush in a flurry of hatred and rage. He quietly decides to kill Peter, and then he just as quietly decides not to when Harry asks him to. This is an action of a singularily cold-blooded man. This is what constitutes the foundation of my characterisation of Remus to a high degree.

Remus makes an appearance in two books, and in both books, he plays a major role during the climax.(2) It's worth noting that Remus is the last and only man standing after the battle at the DoM (Harry doesn't count, he's the hero), while fully-trained aurors lie around unconscious. If this isn't an indication that Remus seriously kicks ass, I don't know what is. Not only is Mr. Looks-Like-One-Good-Hex-Would-Finish-Him-Off unhurt, he also manages to prevent Harry from leaping after Sirius, lifts the curse from Neville, and is presumably in charge of keeping the others alive and calm until the arrival of any officials. That's seriously cool.

At the same time, he manages to maintain that pleasant, lovable facade that renders him invincible. He doesn't present a target, either because people like him (If handled skillfully, "being liked" does not make one a doormat. It constitutes a shield and a weapon, and Remus is certainly very, very skillful.) or because he does not respond to being provoked.

This is, in a nutshell, where my characterisation of Remus derives from. He's deceptive in so many ways, I can't even start to emphasise how much of a turn-on fascinating I find this.

(1)This is not saying that I know what JKR intented Remus to be, or that my version of Remus is entirely correct, and certainly not that my impression of him is the only correct one.

(2) Strictly speaking, he also plays a major role in the post-climax of GoF. "Lie low at Lupin's" spawned more fics than any other sentence in the books.*

*Apart from "Found himself on his hands and knees in Snape's office".


How does one create LJ footnotes?

Comments

[kaysha.livejournal.com]

<3

I guess (ehh.. guess because I don't feel like actually thinking about it, heh) I see Remus a bit differently, but I really, really like the way you see him. .. (But maybe that's because I also see him that way!??! In a way?!?! - Uhh, I probably should start thinking about it.. Anyway, I really liked your post. :))

Footnotes: I think you can create up to 3 (?) with the sup+number code: &sup1; = ¹, &sup2; = ², &sup3; = ³
For all subsequent footnotes you'd have to use the regular HTML superscript tags: ^yourtexthere = ^yourtexthere

[fluffyllama.livejournal.com]

I love it when you turn donnapratchett. Footnotes, mmmm.

I agree with you more all the time about Remus. He's also the only one of the Marauders not dead, imprisoned or in hiding for all those years. He stays under the radar then too.

And although it would obviously have knackered the plot, we can use his distance from Harry not just while he was growing up, but also throughout PoA to back you up. Much as I love the film myself, it's wrong. Remus *didn't* actually go out of his way to tell Harry anything about his family, or even intentionally let him know that he could.

I think he's either intended to be as he's shown in the film of PoA, and was just handled badly/screwed by the plot, or your impressions are spot on. The 'Remus is really evil' option is just people getting the wrong end of the stick.

You're right about him in the shack. I'm just always too distracted by Sirius to notice :-)

[donnaimmaculata.livejournal.com]

Well, I don't see Remus as being only ruthless. But this quality is alluded to and never carried further in the books, so this is why I play with it in my stories.

Thanks for the footnote tutorial! Seeing as I'm unable to write a text without including dozens of parentheses, I'll sure make ample use of them in future :-)

[author-by-night.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't call Remus cold-blooded... I blame his willingness to kill Peter on the Full Moon and on shock. I think that if he'd actually tried to go through with it, he wouldn't have managed to.

I don't know... I mean, I agree he's flawed, but cold blooded?

[donnaimmaculata.livejournal.com]

Footnotes are a fabulous invention ;-)

Remus has mastered the art of camouflage, while remaining a highly dangerous man. Excuse me while I drool in the corner.

The most striking aspect of his and Harry's relationship is that there isn't one. Remus is vaguely friendly but he never makes any attempts to be more than that. Even though Harry is starved for affection and attaches himself desperately to everyone who shows him any kindness (Hagrid, Ron, Molly), he doesn't consider Remus as one of his close friends or confidants.

Heh! See, I'm always too distracted by Remus to notice Sirius. By the time I finished PoA, I had quite forgotten that there was anyone else in the book but Remus ;-)

[arachnethe2.livejournal.com]

Fascinating. When it comes to the big scene in POA then I'm totally distracted by Snape. I so understand why he did what he did. :)*

As for Remus, I migt not see him as you do. To be honest, I still need some bad attitudes to turn his two dimesions into three. So I'm thankful for every idea. Thanks.

*I fall in love with Sirius somewhere in the first chapters in OotP.

[fluffyllama.livejournal.com]

So, given this view of Remus, what I'm really intrigued to know is what you think he was doing in all those missing years. That's one thing I don't remember covering in any Remus chats. And what do you expect to see of him in HBP?

I'm so good at distracting people from work, lalala.

[imadra-blue.livejournal.com]

I agree with your view of him on some angles, and then again, on some other angles I don't. The thing is that I don't think he's that calculating and careful. That's far too Slytherin for him. I see him with a lot more passion than many people give him credit for, certainly, and while I see many of your points, that makes Remus a little to careful in mind. Mr. I Forgot My Potion And Almost Ate My Students isn't as careful as he tries to be, imho. ^^;; Now, he's a lot more subtle and careful than most Gryffs -- mostly I think, due to his Ravenclaw traits. He's also perfectly capable of doing wicked things and I support the dark!past theory, because honestly, why did Sirius think he was a traitor? He's not as innocent as people assume him to be, definitely.

[donnaimmaculata.livejournal.com]

You're marvellous at it *g*

I don't have a strong conception of the missing years. I'd guess that he first ran away (after the whole James-Lily-Sirius thing) to lick his wounds and then proceeded doing odd jobs (banishing boggarts, gnome extermination, general exorcism) for little money. He was the real Lockhart, only less flashy and more substantial. All the while, he was waiting for Voldemort to come back and quietly preparing himself for the second war. Because if Hagrid always knew Voldemort would come back, then Remus most certainly did.

In HBP, Remus will die. I am prepared to face the worst.

I hope that JKR will tell us something about the notorious "missions" of the Order members and that we'll learn that Remus' job was the most dangerous one as the action unravels. Remus will comfort Molly after the death of one or more of her children, look more ill and tired than ever, give Harry one good piece of advice on some DADA-related topic, and then there will be an obligatory climactix confrontation, during which Remus will face Peter and die.

However, seeing as JKR is good at not doing what one expects her to, I'm probably completely wrong. Lord help her if she kills him off right at the beginning, though. I fully expect to read one more book with Remus in it before it's all fanfiction.

[donnaimmaculata.livejournal.com]

This is what I love about fandom. We read these books with a completely different focus. I didn't care much for Snape back then. Fanfics made me love him, and I paid more attention to him in OotP than I had done in the earlier books.

Remus's got bad qualities aplenty. He's a smooth liar to begin with, and he dodges responsibility wherever he can. You can ask mimine for her opinion, I'm sure she'd gladly point out all Remus' faults. In detail *g*

Random thoughts on Remus' dark side by various people: Remus as rapist: "Oddly enough, I was actually thinking about this today, and how I had a really hard time believing Sirius as a rapist. As opposed to, say, Remus. Remus has huge control issues, and a hell of a lot of repressed anger, and the ability to completely withdraw emotionally. I can definitely see him as a cold, totally unmerciful rapist and/or child molester."

Disaffected Remus: "Even when he discovers that he has been gravely mistaken about the entire cause of the last twelve years of his life, he remains unflustered. He merely processes, accepts, and moves on. And even when he is telling a man he believed, until a mere half an hour earlier, to be a victim of a heinous betrayal and murder, that he should have *known* that Remus and Sirius would kill him, he does so coolly. He states: "You should have realized," said Lupin quietly, "if Voldemort didn't kill you, we would. Good-bye, Peter." (p. 375, PoA, US Paperback edition). There is no rage, as Sirius and Harry display (the latter displaying rage towards Sirius when he believed him guilty), just a calm, quiet certainty and cold-blooded murder."

TotallyPsycho!Remus: "Remus is so indifferent to everything and detached in canon, I think it's creepy.There's something just a little too plausible about the idea that he just takes it and takes it and takes it...and then he slips off somewhere where nobody knows him and kills a few dozen people."

I fell in love with Sirius in GoF. He was so sweet and heartbreaking when he listened to Harry's teenage worries in the fireplace.

[donnaimmaculata.livejournal.com]

Hence my disclaimer-footnote: I'm not saying I'm right. I'm just saying what I think *g*

Hm. Maybe I should mention that I don't think that being cold-blooded is a bad thing. I read Remus as extremely level-headed, rational and pragmatic. He sees the necessity of killing Peter (it seems to be an accepted action within the context of the wizarding world) and acts upon it. I can well imagine he's in shock, but shock does not make him incoherent or irrational - it makes him even more detached from his emotions than he normally is. Remus does everything "quietly": talking to the Dementors, reporting his tragic history, and telling a man he's about to kill him. There is no wavering nor an indication that he is emotionally shaken.

[morganmuffle]

I've always thought/hoped that there was more to Remus than the common fanon version of him as the absent minded professor. Nice as that image is it doesn't explain everything he does, especially not the way he acts in the Shack. When you think about what his life must have been like, always hiding, turning into a beast once a monh, losing all his friends in pretty much one fell swoop it would be most unlikely for him to be smiling Professor Lupin who likes chocolate with nothing else beneath that.

I'm not sure I'd say cold blooded, ruthless possibly and definately one of those logical people who will do anything once they've decided their course of action (as in wanting to killing Peter without even a waver). I want to see him influence Harry more, he'd be much more effective at teaching him to clear his mind for occlumency and also just to stop losing his temper all the time.

[cordelia_v]

What an interesting discussion, Donna. It's rare for me to bookmark a short essay and comments like this, but I'm going to do so in this case, and think it over.

I don't have much to say in response, since I, too, belong those who are terribly distracted whenever Snape enters the room, and hadn't considered Remus in isolation as you have. But your points about his coldbloodedness, strengths, and rationality are very well-taken. You make me want to stop work, and re-read PoA all over again, with your comments in mind.

And, just as an aside, I find myself admiring your English when you write non-fiction, even more than in your fiction (I'm assuming that your native language is German). It's not just your mastery of syntax and grammar here: your prose is so careful, precise, and persuasive. I'm seriously impressed.

[donnaimmaculata.livejournal.com]

See, I don't really believe that being in a certain house makes the characters behave in a certain way. For me, the separation is more a sort of very vague guideline which indicates a general tendency, but does not determine characterisation. But anyway.

Remus might carry a lot more passion than he shows (which, BTW, is not what I believe; I think he truly is very indifferent), but he is not led by passion. He is in control of his emotions to the point of suppressing them completely, and he is most definitely in control of people and situations in almost all scenes we see him in.

I don't deny that he's in shock and acts rashly in PoA, and forgetting the potion is not the smartest move ever, but all throughout the Shrieking Shack scene, he directs the others confidently and calmly enough, which indicates that shock does not make him irrational.

Also, I don't think that Remus is dark or evil. He is pragmatic and level-headed, but his intentions are not bad. He's got a moral compass and he tries to do the right thing. What I think is that he is very efficient in dealing with his (or the Order's) enemies. He's secretive and he doesn't let people know what he feels, and I'm not surprised that Sirius, who is the absolute opposite, did not fully trust Remus.

[mimine.livejournal.com]

LOL! I don't think I can manage anything coherent, I hate him that much.

I like the links you give. I've read all of them at one time or another but it was nice to revisit them.

[imadra-blue.livejournal.com]

*nods* I disagree about the houses, there's underlying traits and predilictions of the house in every character. I take the houses pretty seriously, but for the characters, I go by their characterizations and damn the house. In fact, I use the characters to interpret the house. Remus is very perceptive. I think Remus is one of those non-expressive passionate people. I just don't think anyone will ever see it, except in moments of privacy and YEARS of trust. I think he is repressive, but I think it's there. I don't ascribe him with the level of manipulation you've given him, but there is some ability to manipulate people and events, certainly.

Oh, I don't think Remus was ever evil. I said dark!past, as in there were a couple ambiguous things he might have done, got suckered into, was forced to do -- this could be anything from working for the underworld to covering something up. I don't think it's anything serious, I certainly can't see him working for the DE. I just think their is some extra layer of guilt, hence his repressive behavior. Remus is a GOOD man, imho, and I think he does try to do the right thing -- but like any human being he makes mistakes.

Remus is a very controlled, very self-disciplined individual. I like that about him. I just don't see him quite as careful as you do, but I think our visions are similar.

[donnaimmaculata.livejournal.com]

Hee!

Seriously, though, you provide great input when it comes to my characterisation of Remus. I actually agree with you in many instances; only, I don't hate Remus for those character traits.

I've got several links to thoughts and essays about ruthless!Remus in my memories; I take great delight in his dark side.

[donnaimmaculata.livejournal.com]

I think I've been hanging around that part of fandom which sees Remus as not-quite-so-lovable for too long. I hardly ever encounter absent-minded Professor Lupin anymore. I don't deny the existence of Professor Lupin, mind. Remus' teacher persona is very real and it is an essential part of him. However, I am interested in that other part of him, which we only get glimpses of when he is hexing people during climactic battles at the end of a book.

Even though Remus' influence would be good for Harry, I don't expect him to care for Harry more than he has so far. He's never actually shown much personal involvement - while giving Harry private lessons for the course of one year, he never tried to talk to Harry about his parents. I'm sure if he wanted to, he could have managed to do so without mentioning Sirius. But Remus is cautious and he doesn't like exposing himself more than necessary.

[fluffyllama.livejournal.com]

All the while, he was waiting for Voldemort to come back and quietly preparing himself for the second war I'd agree with. And He was the real Lockhart, only less flashy and more substantial is what I would have said only much, much better ;-)

I still don't think he'll die. I think we'll have one Marauder left at the end of all the books and it'll be Remus. I do worry about that silver hand though, even if we don't have anything specific pointing to it being dangerous to Remus in this universe. Until we know otherwise for sure though, it's just there, making me paranoid *sigh*

Did you see people speculating that there won't be a death (or at least a major death) because she hasn't mentioned one yet? I'll admit I'm bracing myself for the inevitable pre-release interview that are going to gear up any time, but also that I'll be disappointed if nobody dies. I want to see the war is dangerous, whoever we have to lose. Eep.

[donnaimmaculata.livejournal.com]

Thank you very much. I've talked about Remus so often that I am under the impression I'm only repeating myself. It's nice to know that I don't appear to recycle my old ideas over and over again.

Isn't it funny how we completely focus on one character and ignore the others? One thing I love about fandom is that it broadened my perception so much. It taught me to love Snape, to think about Draco and to pity Percy.

I don't think that Remus is just pragmatic, nothing but pragmatic. Throughout PoA, he shows that he does care for Harry, even though he has learned to be very self-reliant and does not allow true closeness. It's only that I am more interested in his cold, rational side more than in the friendly professor.

And thank you so much. What a fantastic compliment! :-D Strictly speaking, German is not my native language (that's Polish), but it is my main operative language. I love English, though, and it makes me very happy to be able to communicate in it more or less fluently.

[donnaimmaculata.livejournal.com]

The Lockhart-idea is not mine. I've read it somewhere (musesfool?) and adapted it for my purposes. Yes, I am a thief of intellectual property.

I'd love Remus to survive (duh!), but I am bracing myself for the blow. If it doesn't come, I shall be a very happy fangirl indeed :-)

I don't think I've come across any such speculations - I fully expect there to be some semi-minor deaths. (Bill. Didn't we cover that already? *g*) And she can't save all the important deaths for book seven, unless she wants to kill her readers through emotional overload.

[fluffyllama.livejournal.com]

Yes, we mentioned Bill *sigh* If only I was some sort of OTPer for real instead of a complete tart for so many characters, then I could just be worried about my favourites.

[cordelia_v]

"more or less fluently"? Donna, no one would ever guess that you're not a native speaker (and a rather educated one, at that) unless you told us otherwise. My spoken German is near-native, but my written German doesn't even come close to your English. You must be very linguistically talented.

[donnaimmaculata.livejournal.com]

OK, I admit it: I very often use a dictionary when writing my posts.

I assure you, my written English is much better than my spoken English. Also, I studied English several years and I write for an English-speaking magazine, so I had to master spelling and grammar at some point.

Still, I am insanely flattered by your words :-)

[cordelia_v]

my written English is much better than my spoken English.

Just the opposite, for me, which makes us a perfect match. In lj communications, we can use English, but if we should ever meet in person, we can talk in German. :-)