Spreading the OotP love

[donnaimmaculata]

HBP is one week away, and I realised something: I am not worried about anything that might happen in the book. (I have quite reconciled with the idea of Remus' death.) But what makes me uneasy is the anticipation of the reactions in fandom. There will be hissy fits, there will be character bashing, and there will be outcries of "OMG! JKR is, like, so stupid! She has no idea what makes her characters work, and she dares [dislike Snape/Draco/Voldemort] [like Sirius/Harry/Dumbledore]!!" So, hm, in order to remind myself that there are people who actually like the books and don't mind that it is Rowling who continues writing them, I've got a question: What did you liked about OotP? If anything? Because, personally, I quite liked it. I realise that there are plot holes in Rowling's writing and that Sirius should not have died and that Harry is angry and irrational. But, on the whole, I like the book better than I liked GoF.

- I like angry!Harry. I've always found him too bland in earlier books and never cared much about him, despite his being the hero. His reactions are now appropriate to all the shit life puts him through

- I like that Remus didn't die

- I like Snape's smooth put-down of Umbridge when she demands more Veritaserum

- I like that there isn't so much Quidditch

- I like that Ron is made prefect and not Harry and that Harry is now shut out from a part of Ron and Hermione's life

- I like the glimpse we get of Petunia and Dudley at the beginning (and I like that it is only a glimpse, without any explanation)

- I absolutely adore that Rowling acknowledges that people don't start trusting/liking each other just because they happen to have a goal in common. In fact, this is what I like most about OotP. Most fics written post GoF and dealing with the war had the good guys stand united and fight the evil together (whether or not successfully is immaterial). Snape would train Harry, who would submit to it like a reasonable kid; Snape would forget his own grudge against MWPP and acknowledge Lupin and Black's competence; Dumbledore would be the leader and the Ministry would submit to his leadership... etc. OotP does not offer any of those satisfactory solutions. The good guys keep disliking and distrusting each other, and Harry, despite his hero status, is treated like the brat that he is. OotP is also the book of stagnation: nothing much happens, apart from waiting for Voldemort to act. This drives the characters mad, and their irritation translates to the reader. I don't know whether Rowling did that on purpose, but whatever her intention might have been: she managed to make the readers feel as twitchy and frustrated as the characters. OotP would not work as a stand-alone novel, but as part of a series, it does.

So, I am curious: is there anything you liked about OotP? Or is the hatred of the book universal?

Comments

[titti]

is there anything you liked about OotP?

I don't have to read it anymore. *grins*

[donnaimmaculata.livejournal.com]

Hee!

[fluffyllama.livejournal.com]

OotP has become my favourite book, actually. While I love PoA, it's short and those first three books now feel like a completely different subset to me.

OotP gave us more Remus, more Sirius, it gave us James, it gave us so much info about Snape... and almost everyone gets a look in somewhere.

[donnaimmaculata.livejournal.com]

PoA has good Remus bits, though *g*

But I totally see what you mean. While I've just finished re-reading PoA (well, the Remus bits) recently, I don't really read the first two books anymore.

Yes, the whole Sirius backstory is OotP's great asset. And Snape had some fantastic scenes, too. We finally got to know how spectacularly messed up they are.

[marksykins.livejournal.com]

I'll come back to answer this fully later, but it's not universal. Tis my favorite of all five and what dragged me kicking and screaming into fandom. :D

[donnaimmaculata.livejournal.com]

And you, too, like angry!Harry. I remember that much :-)

[chaletian.livejournal.com]

Well, I liked George and Fred's campaign against Umbridge...

[donnaimmaculata.livejournal.com]

Oh, I like how the Skiving Snackboxes were put to use after Fred and George left school. And their commission to Peeves.

[penknife.livejournal.com]

I liked getting to see the way the Order members related to each other -- up until that point, we'd seen so little of the adults' relationships with other adults. I liked it that they were realistically frustrated and argumentative and afraid.

I liked getting a look at James and Sirius and Remus and Peter as teenagers, and the puncturing of the myth of "the sainted James Potter." I liked it that Sirius and Snape remember James so differently, and that they're both to some degree right.

I liked Harry getting angry, and Hermione starting to show a ruthless streak, and Ron being responsible as a prefect, and Neville being determined and stubborn. I liked seeing more hints at who these people will be as adults.

[donnaimmaculata.livejournal.com]

I liked it that they were realistically frustrated and argumentative and afraid.

Oh yes. And that these feelings made them irrational and sniping at each other.

I liked it that Sirius and Snape remember James so differently, and that they're both to some degree right.

Yes, and that makes me wonder about the whole Pensieve thing. Obviously, if Sirius had put his memories into the Pensieve, we would have got a completely different account on what happened. It's the play with the perspectives which I find fascinating.

I heart Ron for taking his responsibility seriously, while still remaining such a boy ("Oy, midgets!") While I don't like Hermione as a person, I like how Rowling acknowledges her determination and ruthlessness a lot.

[mermaidkween.livejournal.com]

I loved it, myself. It actually became my favorite. I love the Department of Mysteries, at the end. Everyone worked together and got to show off everything the DA taught them. And they got to take the thestrals to get there. 'Twas wonderful. Except for Sirius dying. But I'm okay that it happened. Actually, since I knew the whole time that somebody was going to die, I thought it happened at first when Mrs. Weasley confronted the boggart and saw Ron dead. I was like, "OMG!" but then I remembered that it was a boggart and breathed a BIG sigh of relief. Clever Jo. Making me think Ron died. And so early in the book! Ha.

The Department of Mysteries also opens up another big can of worms...what else is in there? I think that might just be important. If it's not...then heck, that's weird to me.

Angry!Harry is teh sex, as well. I love a main character that enjoys a good yell once in a while. Because silence is golden, but shouting is fun. And he gets all that crap he's been going through off his chest.

I also like that a bit of Ron and Hermione's life is a little secret now, because of the whole prefect thing (Gah, I'm saying everything you did. XD). Now there's a possibility that something's been developing behind the scenes. I won't seriously sail that ship until it happens though. That's my policy. No seriously sailing ships until it happens. That's the way it's always been with me. That's what I tell my friends, that's what I tell my boyfriend, that's what I told MuggleNet, and that's what I'm telling you. XD

Snape's past with MWPP was also on a shallow level, amusing. On a much deeper level, you certainly get a different opinion of James from that. And even a little more understanding of Snape's impetus in life. It's good to find out more about the most mysterious characters.

So...I hope HBP closes some of these gaping doors, but opens just enough more to lead us up to a fantastic finale of Harry's last year at Hogwarts. We shall see.

[donnaimmaculata.livejournal.com]

The Department of Mysteries also opens up another big can of worms...

True. We got a glimpse of the Department of Mysteries at the Quidditch World Cup in GoF, when Arthur pointed out some of the wizards working there in passing, and I'm sure that there is more to it than we've seen so far.

Angry!Harry is teh sex,

Funny, that's how I started to feel about Harry, too. He's so much better when he rages than when he holds back.

I actually don't care about the Ron/Hermione ship, but I like how being prefects removes them from Harry's life to a degree. Because this is what happens with friendships in RL, too. People's lives drift apart in some way.

Snape's past with MWPP was also on a shallow level, amusing.

You must be one of the few people I know that see it like that *g* That's quite refreshing.

I'm sure that there will be enough questions open for book seven. Rowling can't possibly explain everything in HBP.

[megstuff.livejournal.com]

I actually love OotP - that's the book that for me elevates the series beyond entertaining children's books. I only have a quick minute to answer so won't be able to articulate this well, but it's mainly the fact that everyone is so flawed, and that they make mistakes and do things things they shouldn't. I know that happens in the earlier books, but they still sort of seemed untarnished up until book 5. Like in PoA, Remus should have taken his potion, but he's still a Pure Good Guy through and through, at least in Harry's eyes. By OotP mistakes and poor judgment and plain old jackassery are starting to have consequences. The world is much more complex.

[donnaimmaculata.livejournal.com]

Absolutely. I like how the narrative voice as well as Harry begin to acknowledge that the adults Harry's always believed in are flawed and make mistakes with grave consequences. And that despite all this, Harry still falls back upon blaming Snape for Sirius' death, because blaming Snape is the easiest option. That's such a human reaction.

[storyteller.livejournal.com]

It's my favorite of the books (though I tend to choose the latest publication to be my favorite at any time). I'm tired, but here are a few things I have at the top of my head as to why:

- The Harry/Snape Occlumency scenes. Even if you aren't a H/S shipper, you have to admit that whatever tension between them was intense and violent. Dealing with each other's memories is such a dangerous game -- I loved Harry finding out what his father and Sirius were like.

- The part after the Quidditch game when Harry sinks his fist into Malfoy's stomach, just losing it. I could just see Draco trying and trying to find a kink in Harry's cool and his joy when he found it.

- The veil. I'm intrigued by it quite a lot. Scratch that, I'm fascinated by how JRK will continue to explain death. The explanation with Nick was interesting, but I'm jonesing for some majorly morbid death talk.

- Luna. She annoyed me a bit at first (she struck me as one of those people who intentionally acted odd for attention), but as the book progressed and you saw how ostracized she was, I really came to admire her. I think her dealing with Harry after Sirius' death was the most poignant and helpful. (Okay - so my het of preference now is Harry/Luna - sue me)

- Lastly because I need to get off the computer soon: Neville. The hospital scene had me crying. And at the DoM, I knew he'd be the last standing. He would have been just as much, if not more, of an asset as Hermione and Ron in Harry's adventured. *waves Neville flag*

[donnaimmaculata.livejournal.com]

I'm very happy to see how many readers consider OotP their favourite book. I might be hanging around the wrong side of fandom, but I've been under the impression that it's not so very popular.

The Harry/Snape scenes are some of the most intense scenes of the series. Ever. And I'm not even a Harry/Snape shipper.

I quite like the veil, too. I'm not happy about Sirius' death (nor do I want him to come back), but the veil offers so many possibilities for fics and for future plot development.

[author-by-night.livejournal.com]

I agree 100% with all of those!

My additions:

1. More communication with the other Houses; I was hoping for that.

2. Neville's other side; again,what was I was hoping for.

3. Sirius. So many fics had him back to his sixteen year old self, but in a completely logical way. Yet, while he *was* retreating to it, it wasn't seen as healthy by anyone - because it isn't.

4. Tonks, partly because I enjoyed the "OMGWE'VESPORKEDOCSWITHSPECIALPOWERSANDNOWONEISCANON" reactions, but more because she's just... awesome. I do hope she gets more depth.

5. Remus comig back. About time.

[donnaimmaculata.livejournal.com]

I liked the house interaction a lot, too. I hope there will be even more of that in future. Well, there probably will, because of DA.

I loved the glimpse of Sirius' background and of his teenage self. He was messed up from the very beginning, the poor man.

I don't care much about Tonks, strangely. She doesn't annoy me (and the ubiquitous "She's a Mary-Sue" outcry annoys me more than the SuperSpecialPowers), but I don't feel much for her, either.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

I remember answering a poll like this once before but can't remember what I put on it. Answering now though:

I loved MWPP in the scenes from the past, and also Teen!Snape.

I loved the Noble and Most Ancient House of Black.

I loved Kreacher and that whole storyline.

I loved Phineas.

I loved the Sorting Hat's song and Ron's reaction: "Branching out a bit this year, isn't he?" or whatever it was.

I loved Neville and his Gran at St. Mungo's.

[donnaimmaculata.livejournal.com]

I loved TeenSnape, too. He was just the slimy, oily, weird kid that Sirius's always told us he was. - I don't excuse anything that Sirius and James did to him, but I find their aversion against him fully understandable.

The Kreacher storyline works for me on so many levels. I can so imagine Kreacher as that sort of devoted manservant who's been in the family forever and who's life revolves around his family. Also, Sirius found his downfall for the second time because he underestimated someone whom he considered as beneath his notice, and I love it.

Strangely, I don't care much for Nigellus. He had as little effect on me as Jason Isaacs had in the movie - it was fandom's reaction to both of them that made me notice them.

[semielliptical]

I like most of what you listed, and another big thing I like is the humor - the funny/snarky dialogue, the twins' projects, Harry's unsuccessful date with Cho (at least I thought that was funny.)

[donnaimmaculata.livejournal.com]

I think Harry's date was endearing and funny, too. His horror of having to take her hand and the way he masks it midway and reaches for the sugar bowl (?) instead - it's soo teenage and realistic.

JKR makes me laugh quite a lot, actually. Mostly through stuff that Ron says.

[oakwonder.livejournal.com]

I thought it was a wonderful book: by far my favourite. It showed me she wasn't writing sequels, she really had planned out the arc from beginning to end.

They're growing up. Ginny is noticeably older, and three-dimensional.

Hermione saying V-Voldemort. Hermione making a mordant remark something like that perhaps they'd both been trying to make eye contact but at different times: a subtle wit she wouldn't have had when younger.

Snape explaining to Harry what occlumency is, and have to pause and reflect over the difficult problem of why Harry is so special.

Less Quidditch and balls and jollyhockeysticks, less Hagrid.

[donnaimmaculata.livejournal.com]

It showed me she wasn't writing sequels, she really had planned out the arc from beginning to end.

Oh yes, absolutely. I don't care much for the prophecy story arch, but I love the details inbetween. Rowling's very good at creating a world you can get lost in.

I like OotP!Ginny too. I've always thought she's got potential and I liked the girl she's developed into.

Snape explaining to Harry what occlumency is, and have to pause and reflect over the difficult problem of why Harry is so special

I've never noticed that! Interesting...

[asphodeline.livejournal.com]

At the risk of being boring, yes I do like OoTP and for pretty much all the reasons you stated. I like Angry!Harry too - he is the most boring character oherwise in my humble opinon!!

And of course, I loved the extra Snape that we got - more insight, perhaps, into his character and re-reading OTP I have had some interesting ideas that I must do something about.

I don't much mind what happens on HBP although I woudl prefer more Snape and I expect him to be important enough alive to survive well into book seven!!

[asphodeline.livejournal.com]

P.S !! Hated Grawp though

[marinarusalka.livejournal.com]

I liked angry!Harry, too. He had good cause to be angry, and I loved that JKR allowed it to him instead of turning him into a saint or a traumatized little woobie. I've always liked Harry, but I loved him best in OotP.

I loved the backstory on Sirius and the Black family and the insights into Pureblood society.

I thought Umbridge was one of the best (meaning, most despicable) literary villains ever.

I loved Neville's expanded characterization and role in the plot.

I loved the Pensieve flashbacks and the new insights into Snape and MWPP (though that was probably the aspect where I found the fannish response most annoying).

I loved Dumbledore's Army, and the way they came together, and Harry coming into his own as a teacher and a leader.

PoA is still my favorite book, but OotP runs a close second.

[laurelwood.livejournal.com]

I was one of those who didn't like OotP when I read it the first time, and I had to force myself to read it a second time because it was just so relentlessly depressing. In grieving over Harry having such a trying, joy-free year and seething over the bureaucratic nightmare that is the Ministry of Magic, I failed to fully appreciate the MWPP stuff, the increased amount of insight into other adult characters, the enhanced inter-house relations and the glory of Fred-n-George. (Though even the first time round, I was awed by the occlumency parts.) Silly of me, really. But now that I've gotten those emotions out of the way, I find myself enjoying the whole thing a lot more now that I'm reading it a third time to get ready for HBP. I have the feeling, though, that I'll still skim the Grawp/house elf hat parts, because those probably won't have improved no matter how much evolving I may do. :)

[liebchen127.livejournal.com]

I liked the DA.

I liked Sirius's backstory.

I liked the Pensieve flashback.

I liked Peeves's salute to the twins.

But I was very, very sad about Sirius's death, so altogether I didn't like the book very much.

[shocolate.livejournal.com]

I loved it.

I loved everything except Grawp.

And Dumbledore saying Ron was only prefect because Harry was too busy.

[fourth_rose]

I generally liked OotP although my favourite remains PoA. I'm totally with you about Angry!Harry (although I think I'd have gotten the message without the CAPSLOCK OF RAGE) - I've worked with teenagers, and even teens who haven't had Harry's dramatic past react like that.

And yes, I was very happy that there was less Quidditch ;-)

And I was actually quite happy that it was Sirius who died - he was the character I knew I would miss the least *ducks*

[arachnethe2.livejournal.com]

Avada Kedavra....baby!

[froda-baggins.livejournal.com]

I love OotP, always have. Could've done with a bit of trimming, but otherwise it's rather brilliant as a piece of fiction. It's true, which is something one doesn't often see in "children's" fiction (and I use the term "children" nominally, of course). The characters are not nice, not even the good guys, as you say, they mistrust each other, they have difficulty working together, and lots of mistakes are made, resulting in no less than a fatality. In this sense, Sirius' demise is utterly unsurprising - the chain of events in the book leads inevitably to his death.

I love Harry in OotP, I love Lupin, Black, Snape, Dumbledore...the characterizations of these characters are much more full and complex than they ever were previously.

Umbridge was sheer brilliance, one of the best literary villains I've come across in a long time.

The only major failing, imvho, is the Grawp storyline. It contributes very little, if anything, and is very dull.

[isiscolo.livejournal.com]

I'm with those who count OotP as second favorite behind PoA. The Grawp storyline is, as froda_baggins says above, incongruous and dull, and the death was just, waaah. And hello, can we have someone not afraid to edit JKR, please?

But the twins! Hermione being clever with her zit-curse! Umbridge as a villain! Snape's worst memory! McGonagall and Snape standing up to Umbridge in their own ways! Luna! The Black family tree!

[mizbean.livejournal.com]

(Here via my fof list)

I both love and dislike OotP. OotP is the book that crawled under my skin and got me into fandom. I adore Harry and I didn't have those feelings before OotP. I liked him alright, but not the level I do now. He's flawed and angry and is quick to judge and thinks a little too highly of himself and I love that.

I also love Grimmauld Place. I hope we see more of that creepy house.

I thought Luna was an interesting addition to the cast. I'm not so pleased with Ginny's perkier personality, however.

The Neville backstory was heartbreaking -- the gum wrappers *sob*

More Snape, the return of Remus. It took me a while to warm up to Umbridge as a villain, but I love her now. I thought the Dudley Demented was great opening chapter; I really liked learning more about Petunia. And as others have said, the growth of Ron who has much to my surprise become one of my favorite characters in canon.

An a fanfic front, I found Harry/Draco dynamic much more interesting after OotP, so I'm kind of looking forward to see how the new book changes it. (unless JKR kills Draco)

[arachnethe2.livejournal.com]

I love it, I hate it.

OotP made me fall in love with Sirius, and then Jo flushed him through this piece of cloth like a gold fish into the toilette. I have my difficulties;dealing with bad writing.

But Dumbridge was definitely cool, in the creepy sort of way. Myself I met such a woman back in the Czechoslowakia. Umbridge felt very; very real to me.

I think that I shouldn't be awaiting much from HBP. The little emotional distance will let me judge the book well... not too emotionally. :)

[(Anonymous)]

First let me say that I hate that Sirius died, and I know what JKR is probably going to use his death for, but I still think she could have done it, and kept him alive. Whew.

Now that's off my chest, here's what I liked:

The background on the Blacks. JKR says that Sirius is a minor character, but damn, we know about his mom, brother, cousins, niece, nephew, ancestors, house, childhood, adulthood, etc! I'm glad that JKR's illogical like that, because I loved learning more about Sirius.

I loved the "Sit down, Sirius" line from Remus.

I loved that Remus tried to stand up for both Harry and Sirius, while still getting them to compromise.

I love the way Sirius and Remus remembered James so fondly.

McGonnagall was the best! Loved her. Wish she'd been like this the whole series. She's right up there with Sirius and Remus for me now.
I loved her dry wit and asides that just skewer pretentiousness like a surgical steel needle. And helping Peeves! LOL!

I liked reading about Kreacher. I work with someone an awful lot like Kreacher, actually, so he was hilarious to me.

Sirius's line about Kreacher snogging his mum's knickers always makes me smile.

I loved the way Sirius handled the twins. He knew just what to say without going overboard, nor losing his temper unduly.

Sirius at Christmas was fantastic, but so very sad too.

Snape vs Umbridge was great.

The twins' glorious exit.

I LOVED CAPSLOCK HARRY! YAY! Finally, he's real

Loved the way Harry got his own back with Dudders. I don't feel a bit sorry for Dudley.

I am one of the few who liked Ginny. JKR had hinted she was like this in the Chamber of secrets, so I was glad she got to have a personality.

Love Luna and Tonks. Loved Tonks' metamorph abilities. Gives rise to several possibilities. One of the following was replaced with a metamorph, and the doppelganger is a spy: Remus, Neville, or Tonks.

Found Andromeda intriguing. First of all, I think that Andromeda is a female Sirius, but she rebelled and won. I'm surprised that there is no Andromeda fic to speak of.

Loved Regulus.

Gotta go to work now. Lots of stuff to like in it even if all the housework and Umbridge and Grawp were irritating, and that there weren't nearly enough Harry, Remus, and Sirius moments.

[crazysexy-cool.livejournal.com]

I loved Grimmauld Place and the whole concept of the Black family rotting from within; I loved Umbridge as a villain and Ron and Hermione's subtle flirting, and while I hate that Sirius died, Harry's reaction to his death was just...perfect.